anti-war/anti-Bush sign slogans : Houston Indymedia

Drunken frat boy drives country into ditch.

Bush/Cheney: Malice in Blunderland

Who would Jesus bomb?

War begins with 'Dubya'.

Bush is proof that empty warheads can be dangerous.

Let's bomb Texas, they have oil too.

How did our oil get under their sand?

If you can't pronounce it, don't bomb it.

Daddy, can I start the war now?

1000 points of light and one dim bulb.

Sacrifice our SUV's, not our children.

Preemptive impeachment.

No George, I said Mac Attack.

Frodo has failed, Bush has the ring.

Look, I'll pay more for gas!

It's the stupid economy.

Draft Richard Perle.

Draft dodgers shouldn't start wars.

War is sweet to those who haven't tasted it (Erasmus).

Pillow fights only.

Our grief [over 9/11] is not a cry for war.

Different Bush, same shit.

Stop the Bushit.

Just war / just oil.

You don't have to like Bush to love America.

Bushes are for pissing on.

Bush-Cheney-Rumsfeld: the asses of evil.

$1 billion a day to kill people-what a bargain.

Consume -- Consume -- Bomb -- Bomb -- Consume -- Consume

What's the difference between me & God?
He might forgive Bush, but I won't.

Smush Bush.

America, get out of the Bushes.

It's time to trim the Bush.

Pro-lifers: Wake from Bush's propaganda spell

Don't make me come back here [to a peace rally] again.

Disarm Bush too.

Big brother isn't coming-he's already here.

Empires fall.

An eye for an eye leaves the whole world blind (Gandhi).

Impeach the squatters.

Mainstream white guys for peace.
(Sign held by three mainstream-looking white guys)

Hans Blix-look over here.

Let Exxon send their own troops.

Curious, George? -- get a clue.

Destroy Florida. [It could happen again]

There's a terrorist behind every Bush.

How many bodies per mile?

SUV owners roll over for terrorism.

We can't afford to rule the world.

War is so 20th century!

9-11-01: 15 Saudis, 0 Iraqis.

While you were watching the war,
Bush was raping America.

Don't waive your rights while waving your flag.

Leave Desert Storm to the desert.

Drop Bush not bombs.

Fighting for peace is like f___ing for virginity.

Bush is to Christianity as Osama is to Islam.

I asked for universal health care and all I got was this lousy
stealth bomber.

America's problems won't be solved in Iraq.

War is not a family value.

2 sided poster, one side has a picture of a chubby feline, with the
words: GOOD FAT CAT other side has a picture of Cheney, with the
words: BAD FAT CAT

Colorfully dressed drag queen carrying a sign that says: I am the
bomb.

Picture of the peace symbol: back by popular demand.

A picture of Bush with a red-stained upper lip:
Got blood?

A picture of Bush saying "Why should I care what the American people
think?
They didn't vote for me."

A picture of Bush saying "Ask me about my lobotomy."

Beneath a picture of Osama bin Laden dressed as Uncle Sam: I want
YOU to bomb Iraq.

Beneath a picture of a menacing soldier pointing his rifle/bayonet
toward the viewer : Say it!
One Nation under God. Say it!

These slogans are some of the best from a rally on the West Coast this past weekend: Killing Innocent People is the Problem, Not The Solution The Excess of Evil: Sharon, Bush, Blair Stop The Mad Cowboy Disease There’s A Terrorist In Every Bush There’s A Terrorist Behind Every Bush How Did Our Oil Get Under Their Sand?! A Village In Texas Is Looking For Their Idiot War is Expensive Peace ……. Priceless You can bomb the world to pieces, but you cannot bomb the world to peace. War Is Sweet To those who have not tasted it. Bush Pull Out! Like your father should have. Choose life! Abort the war! A Bush in the Hand is Better Regime Change Begins at Home Don't do it George, Dad will still love you

"Bombing for Peace is like Fucking for Virginity"

"Get the Buch Crime Family out of Office"

"Another Halocaust? Not in My Name!!!"

"It is Time to get the Bushes and the Dicks out of the house" (Pres. Bush and Vice Pres. Dick Cheney)

I read this on a bathroom wall in Port Aransas TX, about 30 years ago. The names have been changed, but nothing to do with protecting the innocent...

I'm proud to be American
As proud as I can be
I only wish I was a dog
And Dubya was a tree.

(Instead of a shrub!)

JC

Picture of Bush with big ears, like Alfred E. Neumann. Around him, a halo of phrases: "war" "deficit" "pollution" "no jobs" "no health care"

Beneath it, the legend: WHAT, ME WORRY?

A village in Texas is missing its idiot.

The Queen would never elect a village idiot, come on!

Fire the Son-of-a-Bush

Weren't these some of your slogans too:

If only Neville Chamberlain were President

Those towers were blocking my view

3,000 less Nick fans, how can that be bad

I'd rather they'd bomb us

They hate us and want to kill us, SO!?!?

I don't want democracy in the Middle East

Iraqis enjoy torture and being diappeared by the 10's of thousands

America Sux

Hussein for President, I want a mud hut to overlook one of his palaces

Who would Hilary bomb?

"We need a regime change closer to home"

"The only VALID minorities are democractic minorities"

Isn't that one of yours?

The one at the top about Ted Kennedy:

"Drunken frat boy drives country into ditch."

should probably read:

"Drunken frat boy drives young lady into canal and lets her drown because hey, look at his last name."

liberal slogans;"I did not have sex with that woman(monica),"I did not have sex with that woman(paula jones)","I did not have sex with that woman(jennifer flowers)","I did not have sex with that woman(hillary),"I did not inhale","I feel your pain(as he inserts cigar)","It depends on what the definition of is is","I did not kill vince foster(hillary did)","FBI files?","I invented the internet","I bombed an asprin factory","rawanda? what part of ark is that in?","blowjobs are not sex","I like women from both parties","monica spits","I bombed an aspirin factory","buy cattle futures","I did not grope that woman(kathleen willy)","have sex with bill,get a new nose"

hi, just read your slogans, have one on the wal in my kitchen........bush is another name for c..t ( bush is slang in uk for womens hairy bits, c..t is also slang for the same thing)

I'm confused... There is a paradox here. We dislike Bush, this is universal I hope, but have you not noticed that 'having a pop' is just adding to the hatred. Two wrongs don't make a right. You live in a Christian country, turn the other cheek and forgive and pray for him because the constraints on him are huge, even if he wanted to do a good job, he can't. New World Order, 23, 1000 points of light, Masons illuminati etc, National debt obligations. The Devil has him.
Pray it, don't display it.
Mark D (UK)

Not too long from now, they'll sue you for using words like "Pray" and the worst of all "Christian".

I thought I lived in a country which was born out of religious freedom, not an obligation to Christianity. Although I agree in forgivness and sending Bush positive energy (AKA praying) I don't think we can just pass these monstrosities off as "the devils" work and let it be. Speaking out is the only way to get people involved, aware, passionate about the condition of things. I can understand that Bush is a human who is under outside contraints but he (and his administration) is also resposible for the results of ALL of his actions. Right now those people in Iraq are getting most of my prayers.

Kiss my tush, Bush

Who are the real terrorists?

Lead by example, not by a trample

"We need Neville" (I'm sure someone will have to explain that one to you)

"If we close our eyes, they'll go away"

"Put your head in the sand, then we'll have anal access"

"Death and enslavement before war!"

"No matter what it is, if Bush likes it, I hate it"

"WTC obstructed my view, thank you Allah"

"I won't give a shit until it's too late"

And my favorite:

"I'm a bitter failure, so use the government to punish all that succeed. Vote for Kerry."

excuse me, but we do not live in a christian country, thank you very much.

But, we are a country founded on Christian beliefs and the majority of people consider themselves Christian.

I bet that breaks your heart.

lol

Founded on Christian Beliefs? I

Benjamin Franklin
"Lighthouses are more helpful than churches."

"The way to see by faith is to shut the eye of reason."

Thomas Jefferson
"...our civil rights have no dependance on our religious opnions, any more than our opinions in physics or geometry"

"I am for freedom of religion and against all maneuvers to bring about a legal ascendancy of one sect over another."

James Madison
"During almost fifteen centuries has the legal establishment of Christianity been on trial. What has been its fruits? More or less, in all places, pride and indolence in the clergy; ignorance and servility in the laity; in both, superstition, bigotry and persecution."

"And I have no doubt that every new example will succeed, as every past one has done, in showing that religion and Government will both exist in greater purity, the less they are mixed together."

Thomas Paine
"Of all the tyrannies that affect mankind, tyranny in religion is the worst."

"The adulterous connection between church and state."

"The age of ignorance commenced with the Christian system."

Abraham Lincoln
"The Bible is not my book, and Christianity is not my religion. I could never give assent to the long, complicated statements of Christian dogma."

And let us not forget that pesky:
"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof, or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press, or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances."--First Amendment to the U.S.A. Constitution

In addition, not one of the the first six US Presidents was an orthodox Christian

Christopher Columbus (who's name means "Christ Bearer) named his first landfall, San Salvador (Holy Savior). In 1504 he wrote a book. In the book he wrote,

"I prayed to the most merciful Lord about my heart's great desire ... It was the Lord who put into my mind ... the fact that it would be possible to sail from here to the Indies. There is no question that the inspiration was from the Holy Spirit...."

From the beginning, Christians in Europe viewed the New World as a place for religious freedom and a haven and an opportunity to spread the Gospel. Their earliest legal documents reflect their commitment to Christ and their mission. In 1620, the Pilgrims established the Mayflower Compact before they landed at Plymouth Rock. The document said, "In the presence of God, Amen. We...do by these presents solemnly and mutually in the presence of God, and one another, covenant and combine ourselves into a civil body politic."

In the Fundamental Orders of Connecticut, often called the first American Constitution, written in 1638, the drafters said, "[We] enter into a combination and confederation together to maintain and preserve the liberty and purity of the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ, which we now profess." This document recognized for the first time that mankind's rights come from God.

The Declaration of Independence acknowledges that mankind is created and that the Creator God bestows the rights. That means, that no man can take them away, and that government, instituted by God, is to protect those rights. By implication, government cannot deprive a person of those rights absent due process of law. Thus, God gave mankind free will, and a function of government is to protect the electorates exercise of free will. That is a Christian concept.

By the way, did you know that the Continental Congress called for a day of fasting and prayer within the colonies, beseeching God to give guidance and direction as to whether they should secede from England before the representatives to the Continental Congress signed the Declaration of Independence? In 1777, while the colonies were struggling in the Revolutionary War, the First Continental Congress called the Bible "the great political textbook of the patriots" and appropriated funds to import 20,000 Bibles for the people. Are you aware that the Continental Congress began its sessions with prayer, a practice that is followed by both houses of congress even today?

Samuel Adams, cousin of John Adams, is called the "Father of the American Revolution." He incited the Boston Tea Party, signed the Declaration of Independence and called for the first Continental Congress. He said as the Declaration of Independence was being signed, "We have this day restored the Sovereign to whom all men ought to be obedient. He reigns in heaven and from the rising to the setting of the sun, let His kingdom come." Samuel Adams also said, "First of all, I ... rely upon the merits of Jesus Christ for a pardon of all my sins."

Benjamin Franklin, considered a deist by many, said, "He who shall introduce into the public affairs the principles of a primitive Christianity, will change the face of the world." And Thomas Jefferson, also considered a deist, said, "The reason that Christianity is the best friend of government is because Christianity is the only religion that changes the heart." Jefferson is even quoted as having said, "I am a Christian, that is to say, a disciple of the doctrines of Jesus Christ."

John Jay was the first Chief Justice of he Supreme Court. He said, "Providence has given to our people the choice of their rulers. And it is the duty as well as the privilege and interest of a Christian nation to select and prefer Christians for their rulers."

Political Science professors at the University of Houston, curious about who influenced the founders, gathered 15,000 quotes made by them. The effort took over ten years. They reduced the number to those that had a significant impact on the founding fathers and the result was 3,154 quotes. They determined that the Bible was quoted far more than any other source. Thirty-four percent of all quotes were from the Bible, and another 60% of the quotes were from men who were using the Bible to make their point. God's word was important to the nation's founders.

This post could go on and on.

So what? Most of the founding fathers may have believed in God and the bible, but they were not orthodox Christians. Why did they come here? They came here to escape religious persecution...hence the Constitutional Amendment guaranteeing religious FREEDOM, not freedom to Christianity ONLY. If they wanted this land to be a Christian Nation, why the hell didn’t they just stay where they were? They fully understood the effect that Religion had on Government, and that it was devastating.

The point of that Amendment, which many Christian Patriots fail to realize, is that regardless of what the denomination or religious beliefs of the countries leaders or Majority, that everyone would have the individual right to decide what they want to believe and not be punished or ridiculed for it. Organized Christianity does not lend enough tolerance to make this possible, thus separation of church and state.

What does Christopher Columbus have to do with anything? He discovered a land that already had people living on it and that a Viking had already found. He did not develop government or large colonies, the men I quoted did. And by the way, he sailed in the name of the Spanish, what did they ever influence in this country besides bringing over missionaries to murder native people and cram Jesus down their throat? That is how Christianity spread in this country, through force and genocide. OH! That’s what Columbus has to do with it! Good point. Those were very Christian things to do. Are those the kind of things you want Christianity to take credit for?

I suppose you also support Manifest Destiny. You know those savage darkies have no business owning land, they are incapable of self-governing. God told me!

This country was founded on Christian principles by people who were mostly Christians.

That is just a fact you're going to have to deal with, so just get over it!

BTW, did you know there isn't anything in the Constitution about the "seperation of Church and state"?

will nikki and rancid please be quiet. What point are you two trying to make? I think u guys should just drop it-or fight over it via E-mail because your argument does not need to be seen by internet-users worldwide.

In 1797, six years after the adoption of the Bill of Rights, the United States government signed a treaty with the Muslim nation of Tripoli that contained the following statement (numbered Article 11 in the treaty):

"As the Government of the United States is not,
in any sense, founded on the Christian religion;
as it has in itself no character of enmity against
the law, religion or tranquility of Musselmen; and
as the states never have entered into any war or
act of hostility against any Mohometan nation,
it is declared by the parties that no pretext arising
from religious opinion shall ever produce an
interruption of harmony existing between the
two countries."

So far as we can tell, the inclusion of these words in the treaty had no negative political ramifications for the treaty whatsoever. On the contrary, the treaty was approved by President John Adams and his Secretary of State Timothy Pickering, and was then ratified by the Senate without objection. According to an information sheet provided to us by Ed Buckner of the Atlanta Freethought Society:

The Journal of the Executive Proceedings of
the United States Senate clearly specifies that
the treaty was read aloud on the floor of the
Senate and that copies of the treaty were printed
"for the use of the Senate." Nor is it plausible to
argue that perhaps Senators voted for the treaty
without being aware of the famous words.
The treaty was quite short, requiring only two
or three pages to reprint in most treaty books
today--and printed, in its entirely, on but one page
(sometimes the front page) of U.S. newspapers
of the day. The lack of any recorded argument
about the wording, as well as the unanimous
vote and the and the wide reprinting of the words
in the press of 1797, suggests that the idea that
the government was not a Christian one was
widely and easily accepted at the time.

John Adams, the country's second president, was drawn to the study of law but faced pressure from his father to become a clergyman.

He wrote that he found among the lawyers 'noble and gallant achievments" but among the clergy, the "pretended sanctity of some absolute dunces". Late in life he wrote: "Twenty times in the course of my late reading, have I been upon the point of breaking out, "This would be the best of all possible worlds, if there were no religion in it!"

It was during Adam's administration that the Senate ratified the Treaty of Peace and Friendship, which states in Article XI that "the government of the United States of America is not in any sense founded on the Christian Religion."

Benjamin Franklin, delegate to the Continental Congress and the Constitutional Convention, said:

As to Jesus of Nazareth, my Opinion of whom you particularly desire, I think the System of Morals and his Religion...has received various corrupting Changes, and I have, with most of the present dissenters in England, some doubts as to his Divinity; tho' it is a question I do not dogmatize upon, having never studied it, and think it needless to busy myself with it now, when I expect soon an opportunity of knowing the Truth with less trouble."

He died a month later, and historians consider him, like so many great Americans of his time, to be a Deist, not a Christian.

As to rancid and nikki, hi, its me again. this country most likely Was founded on Christian people, however that is quickly changing. I am "considered too young" by many to be ingaged in an argument like this, but I want to make a point. This country is very quickly changing, and as we have more people from different countries and religions coming to live here as well, we are not sure what is going to happen. It is true that both of you make good points, and the past shows them well. But what about the avarage person back then, when this country was founded? Many of them, from England, did Not have Christianity as thier main focus. We tend to focus our history on the 'founding fathers', but what about their supporters? I hope you two will at least read my message, much less Listen too it.

Thomas Jefferson, third president and author of the Declaration of Independence, said:"I trust that there is not a young man now living in the United States who will not die a Unitarian." He referred to the Revelation of St. John as "the ravings of a maniac" and wrote:

"The Christian priesthood, finding the doctrines of Christ levelled to every understanding and too plain to need explanation, saw, in the mysticisms of Plato, materials with which they might build up an artificial system which might, from its indistinctness, admit everlasting controversy, give employment for their order, and introduce it to profit, power, and pre-eminence.

The doctrines which flowed from the lips of Jesus himself are within the comprehension of a child; but thousands of volumes have not yet explained the Platonisms engrafted on them: and for this obvious reason that nonsense can never be explained."

I have examined all the known superstitions of the Word, and I do not find in our particular superstition of Christianity one redeeming feature. They are all alike, founded on fables and mythology. Millions of innocent men, women and children, since the introduction of Christianity, have been burnt, tortured, fined and imprisoned. What has been the effect of this coercion? To make one half the world fools and the other half hypocrites; to support roguery and error all over the world ...

The clergy converted the simple teachings of Jesus into an engine for enslaving mankind ... to filch wealth and power to themselves. [They], in fact, constitute the real Anti-Christ.
-- Thomas Jefferson

The Christian god can easily be pictured as virtually the same god as the many ancient gods of past civilizations. The Christian god is a three headed monster; cruel, vengeful and capricious. If one wishes to know more of this raging, three headed beast-like god, one only needs to look at the caliber of people who say they serve him. They are always of two classes; fools and hypocrites. To compel a man to furnish contributions of money for the propagation of opinions which he disbelieves and abhors, is sinful and tyrannical.
-- Thomas Jefferson

Accustom a people to believe that priests and clergy can forgive sins ... and you will have sins in abundance. I would not dare to dishonor my Creator's name by [attaching] it to this filthy book [the Bible].
-- Thomas Paine

For here we are not afraid to follow truth wherever it may lead, nor to tolerate error so long as reason is free to combat it.
-- Thomas Jefferson

It does me no injury for my neighbor to say there are twenty gods, or no God.
-- Thomas Jefferson

Question with boldness even the existence of a God; because, if there be one, he must more approve of the homage of reason, than that of blind-folded fear.
-- Thomas Jefferson

Whenever we read the obscene stories, the voluptuous debaucheries, the cruel and torturous executions, the unrelenting vindictiveness, with which more than half the Bible is filled, it would be more consistent that we called it the word of a demon than the Word of God. It is a history of wickedness that has served to corrupt and brutalize mankind.
-- Thomas Paine

I do not believe in the creed professed by the Jewish Church, by the Roman Church, by the Greek Church, by the Turkish Church, by the Protestant Church, nor by any church that I know of. My own mind is my own church.
-- Thomas Paine

My country is the world, and my religion is to do good.
-- Thomas Paine

Let us with caution indulge the supposition, that morality can be maintained without religions.
-- George Washington

Of all the animosities which have existed among mankind, those which are caused by difference of sentiments in religion appear to be the most inveterate and distressing, and ought most to be deprecated. I was in hopes that the enlightened and liberal policy, which has marked the present age, would at least have reconciled Christians of every denomination so far that we should never again see the religious disputes carried to such a pitch as to endanger the peace of society.
-- George Washington, letter to Edward Newenham, October 20, 1792; from George Seldes, ed., The Great Quotations, Secaucus, New Jersey: Citadel Press, 1983, p. 726]

There is nothing which can better deserve our patronage than the promotion of science and literature. Knowledge is in every country the surest basis of public happiness.
-- George Washington, address to Congress, 8 January, 1790

Religious controversies are always productive of more acrimony and irreconcilable hatreds than those which spring from any other cause.
-- George Washington, letter to Sir Edward Newenham, June 22, 1792

...the path of true piety is so plain as to require but little political direction.
-- George Washington, 1789, responding to clergy complaints that the Constitution lacked mention of Jesus Christ, from The Godless Constitution: The Case Against Religious Correctness, Isacc Kramnick and R. Laurence Moore W.W. Norton and Company 101-102

If they are good workmen, they may be from Asia, Africa or Europe; they may be Mahometans, Jews, Christians of any sect, or they may be Atheists....
-- George Washington, to Tench Tighman, March 24, 1784, when asked what type of workman to get for Mount Vernon, from The Washington papers edited by Saul Padover

To give opinions unsupported by reasons might appear dogmatical.
-- George Washington, to Alexander Spotswood, November 22, 1798, from The Washington papers edited by Saul Padover

...I beg you be persuaded that no one would be more zealous than myself to establish effectual barriers against the horrors of spiritual tyranny, and every species of religious persecution.
-- George Washington, to United Baptists Churches of Virginia, May, 1789 from The Washington papers edited by Saul Padover

As the contempt of the religion of a country by ridiculing any of its ceremonies, or affronting its ministers or votaries, has ever been deeply resented, you are to be particularly careful to restrain every officer from such imprudence and folly, and to punish every instance of it. On the other hand, as far as lies in your power, you are to protect and support the free exercise of religion of the country, and the undisturbed enjoyment of the rights of conscience in religious matters, with your utmost influence and authority.
-- George Washington, to Benedict Arnold, September 14, 1775 from The Washington papers edited by Saul Padover

Christianity makes me sick, especially idiots like you who say that this is a Christian country.

Every day Big Brother gains power

"War is an ugly thing, but not the ugliest of things; the decayed and degraded state of moral and patriotic feeling which thinks nothing worth a war, is worse. A man who has nothing which he cares more about than he does about his personal safety is a miserable creature who has no chance at being free, unless made and kept so by the exertions of better men than himself."

-- John Stuart Mill

Some Christians are currently arguing that the concept of separating church and state was not in the minds of the founding fathers, and that it is a recent and pernicious doctrine that is the result of Supreme Court decisions in the 1950's and 60s.

This simply isn't true.

Separation of church and state is not something the Supreme Court invented in the 1950's and 60's. The phrase itself appears in a letter from President Thomas Jefferson to the Danbury Baptist Association of Danbury, Connecticut, on Jan 1, 1802.

The Baptist Association had written to President Jefferson regarding a "rumor that a particular denomination was soon to be recognized as the national denomination." Jefferson responded to calm their fears by assuring them that the federal government would not establish any single denomination of Christianity as the National denomination. He wrote: "The First Amendment has erected a wall of separation between Church and State."

Notice the phrasing in the U.S. Constitution, Article VI, paragraph 3:

The Senators and Representatives before mentioned,
and the Members of the several State Legislatures,
and all executive and judicial Officers, both of the
United States and of the several States, shall be bound
by Oath or Affirmation, to support this Constitution;
but no religious Test shall ever be required as a Qualification to any Office or public Trust under the
United States. (emphasis added)

Furthermore, Thomas Jefferson created his own version of the gospels; he was uncomfortable with any reference to miracles, so with two copies of the New Testament, he cut and pasted them together, excising all references to miracles, from turning water to wine, to the resurrection.

See: "The Jefferson Bible" - http://www.angelfire.com/co/JeffersonBible/

NOTE: All quotation taken from Robert S. Alley, ed., James Madision on Religious Liberty, pp. 37-94.

James Madison (1751-1836) is popularly known as the "Father of the Constitution." More than any other framer he is responsible for the content and form of the First Amendment. His understanding of federalism is the theoretical basis of our Constitution. He served as President of the United States between 1809-1817.

Madison's most famous statement on behalf of religious liberty was his Memorial and Remonstrance Against Religious Assessments, which he wrote to oppose a bill that would have authorized tax support for Christian ministers in the state of Virginia. -- http://candst.tripod.com/tnppage/memorial.htm

Other sources for Madison's beliefs are his letter to Jasper Adams, where he argues on behalf of letting religion survive on its own merits, and a 1792 article in which he suggests that there is no specific religious sanction for American government. -- http://candst.tripod.com/tnppage/jasper.htm -- http://candst.tripod.com/tnppage/madlib.htm

Finally, a good deal of Madision's Detached Memoranda concerns the issue of religious liberty. This material is particularly important in that it gives Madision's views of a number of events that are sometimes disputed by accomodationists (eg., congressional chaplains, days of prayer, etc.). -- http://candst.tripod.com/tnppage/detach.htm

Madison's summary of the First Amendment:
---------------------------------------------------------
Congress should not establish a religion and enforce the legal observation of it by law, nor compel men to worship God in any manner contary to their conscience, OR THAT ONCE SECT MIGHT OBTAIN A PRE-EMINENCE, or two combined together, and establish a religion to which they would COMPEL OTHERS TO CONFORM.

(Annals of Congress, Sat Aug 15th, 1789 pages 730 - 731).

James Madison and the Separation of Church and State
----------------------------------------------------------------

There is no doubt that James Madison believed in the separation of church and state. It was a constant theme of his career and an area in which his views were sometimes stated without his characteristic moderation. In the Memorial and Remonstrance of June 20, 1785, he wrote:

"During almost fifteen centuries has the legal
establishment of Christianity been on trial. What have
been its fruits? More or less in all places, pride and
indolence in the Clergy, ignorance and servility in
the laity, in both, SUPERSTITION, BIGOTRY and PERSECUTION."

Thirty-seven years later, he has perhaps softened his rhetoric, but not changed his mind. In a letter to Edward Livingston, he writes: "religion and Government will both exist in greater purity the less they are mixed."

Nonetheless, Madison was inherently a moderate. His support of separation of church and state did not prevent him from issuing the proclamation below during his presidency.

Reading the proclamation, it is clear that the President is calling for the observation of a religious holiday, an ancestor of our Thanksgiving Day. How does he justify this? He provides an answer in the same letter to Livingston quoted above. He writes:

"I was always careful to make the proclamations
absolutely indiscriminant and merely RECOMMENDATORY; or, rather, MERE DESIGNATIONS of a day on which all
who thought proper might unite in consecrating it
to religious purposes, according to their own faith
and forms."

Reading the Proclamation below, it is clear that Madison followed his own rules. He does not endorse Christianity or any specific Christian denomination; he is "absolutely indiscriminant." He refers to "great Parent and Sovereign of the Universe," for instance. He also asks that persons gather "in their respective religious congregations;" thus they can follow "their own faith and forms".

The abuse of the empire has a limit and that is the patience of the "We the People".

(:- I want regime change in America :-)

Regime change? I guess you're hoping for an ayatollah?

yeah, rancid. that's what you should have told W. about Iraq.

How about a quote from Russia's President Putin as a slogan:

"After the events of September 11, 2001, and before the start of the military operation in Iraq, Russian special services several times received information that the official services of the Saddam regime were preparing 'terrorist acts' on the United States and beyond its borders," President Vladimir Putin told reporters.

More Trees
Less Bushs
Vote Kerry

Less CIA/FBI Intelligence
Less Security
Less Military
Less Income
Less Opprotunity
Less Small Businesses
Vote For Kerry And Get Less

"Families is where our nation finds hope, where wings take dream." —George W. Bush, LaCrosse, Wis., Oct. 18, 2000

"I know how hard it is for you to put food on your family." —George W. Bush, Greater Nashua, N.H., Jan. 27, 2000

"I promise you I will listen to what has been said here, even though I wasn't here." —George W. Bush, Waco, Texas, Aug. 13, 2002

"I am here to make an announcement that this Thursday, ticket counters and airplanes will fly out of Ronald Reagan Airport." —George W. Bush, Washington, D.C., Oct. 3, 2001

"You teach a child to read, and he or her will be able to pass a literacy test.'' —George W. Bush, Townsend, Tenn., Feb. 21, 2001

"I know what I believe. I will continue to articulate what I believe and what I believe — I believe what I believe is right." ——George W. Bush, Rome, July 22, 2001

"There's an old saying in Tennessee — I know it's in Texas, probably in Tennessee — that says, fool me once, shame on — shame on you. Fool me — you can't get fooled again." ——George W. Bush, Nashville, Tenn., Sept. 17, 2002

"I know the human being and fish can coexist peacefully." ——George W. Bush, Saginaw, Mich., Sept. 29, 2000

"They misunderestimated me." ——George W. Bush, Bentonville, Ark., Nov. 6, 2000

"Rarely is the questioned asked: Is our children learning?" ——George W. Bush, Florence, S.C., Jan. 11, 2000

"I want to thank my friend, Senator Bill Frist, for joining us today. You're doing a heck of a job. You cut your teeth here, right? That's where you started practicing? That's good. He married a Texas girl, I want you to know. Karyn is with us. A West Texas girl, just like me." —George W. Bush, Nashville, Tenn., May 27, 2004

"I'm honored to shake the hand of a brave Iraqi citizen who had his hand cut off by Saddam Hussein." —George W. Bush, Washington, D.C., May 25, 2004

"This has been tough weeks in that country." —George W. Bush, Washington, D.C., April 13, 2004

"Coalition forces have encountered serious violence in some areas of Iraq. Our military commanders report that this violence is being insticated by three groups." —George W. Bush, Washington, D.C., April 13, 2004

"Obviously, I pray every day there's less casualty." —George W. Bush, Fort Hood, Texas, April 11, 2004

"Earlier today, the Libyan government released Fathi Jahmi. She's a local government official who was imprisoned in 2002 for advocating free speech and democracy." —George W. Bush, citing Jahmi, who is a man, in a speech paying tribute to women reformers during International Women's Week, Washington, D.C., March 12, 2004

"The march to war affected the people's confidence. It's hard to make investment. See, if you're a small business owner or a large business owner and you're thinking about investing, you've got to be optimistic when you invest. Except when you're marching to war, it's not a very optimistic thought, is it? In other words, it's the opposite of optimistic when you're thinking you're going to war." —George W. Bush, Springfield, Mo., Feb. 9, 2004

"There is no such thing necessarily in a dictatorial regime of iron-clad absolutely solid evidence. The evidence I had was the best possible evidence that he had a weapon." —George W. Bush, Meet the Press, Feb. 8, 2004

"The recession started upon my arrival. It could have been — some say February, some say March, some speculate maybe earlier it started — but nevertheless, it happened as we showed up here. The attacks on our country affected our economy. Corporate scandals affected the confidence of people and therefore affected the economy. My decision on Iraq, this kind of march to war, affected the economy." —George W. Bush, Meet the Press, Feb. 8, 2004

"My views are one that speaks to freedom." —George W. Bush, Washington, D.C., Jan. 29, 2004

"See, one of the interesting things in the Oval Office — I love to bring people into the Oval Office — right around the corner from here — and say, this is where I office, but I want you to know the office is always bigger than the person." —George W. Bush, Washington, D.C., Jan. 29, 2004

"More Muslims have died at the hands of killers than — I say more Muslims — a lot of Muslims have died — I don't know the exact count — at Istanbul. Look at these different places around the world where there's been tremendous death and destruction because killers kill." —George W. Bush, Washington, D.C., Jan. 29, 2004

"Then you wake up at the high school level and find out that the illiteracy level of our children are appalling." —George W. Bush, Washington, D.C., Jan. 23, 2004

"Just remember it's the birds that's supposed to suffer, not the hunter." —George W. Bush, advising quail hunter and New Mexico Sen. Pete Domenici, Roswell, N.M., Jan. 22, 2004

"I was a prisoner too, but for bad reasons." —George W. Bush, to Argentine President Nestor Kirchner, on being told that all but one of the Argentine delegates to a summit meeting were imprisoned during the military dictatorship, Monterrey, Mexico, Jan. 13, 2004

"One of the most meaningful things that's happened to me since I've been the governor — the president — governor — president. Oops. Ex-governor. I went to Bethesda Naval Hospital to give a fellow a Purple Heart, and at the same moment I watched him—get a Purple Heart for action in Iraq — and at that same — right after I gave him the Purple Heart, he was sworn in as a citizen of the United States — a Mexican citizen, now a United States citizen." —George W. Bush, Washington, D.C., Jan. 9, 2004

"And if you're interested in the quality of education and you're paying attention to what you hear at Laclede, why don't you volunteer? Why don't you mentor a child how to read?" —George W. Bush, St. Louis, Mo., Jan. 5, 2004

"See, without the tax relief package, there would have been a deficit, but there wouldn't have been the commiserate — not 'commiserate' — the kick to our economy that occurred as a result of the tax relief." —George W. Bush, Washington, D.C., Dec. 15, 2003

"[T]he Iraqis need to be very much involved. They were the people that was brutalized by this man." —George W. Bush, Washington, D.C., Dec. 15, 2003

"[T]he best way to find these terrorists who hide in holes is to get people coming forth to describe the location of the hole, is to give clues and data." —George W. Bush, Washington, D.C., Dec. 15, 2003

"Justice was being delivered to a man who defied that gift from the Almighty to the people of Iraq." —George W. Bush, Washington, D.C., Dec. 15, 2003

"This very week in 1989, there were protests in East Berlin and in Leipzig. By the end of that year, every communist dictatorship in Central America had collapsed." —George W. Bush, Washington, D.C., Nov. 6, 2003

"[A]s you know, these are open forums, you're able to come and listen to what I have to say." —George W. Bush, Washington, D.C., Oct. 28, 2003

"The ambassador and the general were briefing me on the — the vast majority of Iraqis want to live in a peaceful, free world. And we will find these people and we will bring them to justice." —George W. Bush, Washington, D.C., Oct. 27, 2003

"[W]hether they be Christian, Jew, or Muslim, or Hindu, people have heard the universal call to love a neighbor just like they'd like to be called themselves." —George W. Bush, Washington, D.C., October 8, 2003

"See, free nations are peaceful nations. Free nations don't attack each other. Free nations don't develop weapons of mass destruction." —George W. Bush, Milwaukee, Wis., Oct. 3, 2003

"Washington is a town where there's all kinds of allegations. You've heard much of the allegations. And if people have got solid information, please come forward with it. And that would be people inside the information who are the so-called anonymous sources, or people outside the information — outside the administration." —George W. Bush, Chicago, Sept. 30, 2003

"[W]e've had leaks out of the administrative branch, had leaks out of the legislative branch, and out of the executive branch and the legislative branch, and I've spoken out consistently against them, and I want to know who the leakers are." —George W. Bush, Chicago, Sept. 30, 2003

"I glance at the headlines just to kind of get a flavor for what's moving. I rarely read the stories, and get briefed by people who are probably read the news themselves." —George W. Bush, Washington, D.C., Sept. 21, 2003

"We had a chance to visit with Teresa Nelson who's a parent, and a mom or a dad." —George W. Bush, Jacksonville, Florida, Sept. 9, 2003

"As Luce reminded me, he said, without data, without facts, without information, the discussions about public education mean that a person is just another opinion." —George W. Bush, Jacksonville, Florida, Sept. 9, 2003

"[T]hat's just the nature of democracy. Sometimes pure politics enters into the rhetoric." —George W. Bush, Crawford, Texas, Aug. 8, 2003

"We had a good Cabinet meeting, talked about a lot of issues. Secretary of State and Defense brought us up to date about our desires to spread freedom and peace around the world." —George W. Bush, Washington, D.C., Aug. 1, 2003

"Security is the essential roadblock to achieving the road map to peace." —George W. Bush, Washington, D.C., July 25, 2003

"Our country puts $1 billion a year up to help feed the hungry. And we're by far the most generous nation in the world when it comes to that, and I'm proud to report that. This isn't a contest of who's the most generous. I'm just telling you as an aside. We're generous. We shouldn't be bragging about it. But we are. We're very generous." —George W. Bush, Washington, D.C., July 16, 2003

"It's very interesting when you think about it, the slaves who left here to go to America, because of their steadfast and their religion and their belief in freedom, helped change America." —George W. Bush, Dakar, Senegal, July 8, 2003

"You've also got to measure in order to begin to effect change that's just more — when there's more than talk, there's just actual — a paradigm shift." —George W. Bush, Washington, D.C., July 1, 2003

"I urge the leaders in Europe and around the world to take swift, decisive action against terror groups such as Hamas, to cut off their funding, and to support — cut funding and support, as the United States has done." —George W. Bush, Washington, D.C., June 25, 2003

"Iran would be dangerous if they have a nuclear weapon." —George W. Bush, Washington, D.C., June 18, 2003

"Now, there are some who would like to rewrite history—revisionist historians is what I like to call them." —George W. Bush, Elizabeth, N.J., June 16, 2003

"I am determined to keep the process on the road to peace." —George W. Bush, Washington, D.C., June 10, 2003

"The true strength of America happens when a neighbor loves a neighbor just like they'd like to be loved themselves." —George W. Bush, Elizabeth, N.J., June 16, 2003

"I'm the master of low expectations." —George W. Bush, aboard Air Force One, June 4, 2003

"I'm also not very analytical. You know I don't spend a lot of time thinking about myself, about why I do things." —George W. Bush, aboard Air Force One, June 4, 2003

"I recently met with the finance minister of the Palestinian Authority, was very impressed by his grasp of finances." —George W. Bush, Washington, D.C., May 29, 2003

"Oftentimes, we live in a processed world — you know, people focus on the process and not results." —George W. Bush, Washington, D.C., May 29, 2003

"I've got very good relations with President Mubarak and Crown Prince Abdallah and the King of Jordan, Gulf Coast countries." —George W. Bush, Washington, D.C., May 29, 2003

"All up and down the different aspects of our society, we had meaningful discussions. Not only in the Cabinet Room, but prior to this and after this day, our secretaries, respective secretaries, will continue to interact to create the conditions necessary for prosperity to reign." —George W. Bush, Washington, D.C., May 19, 2003

"First, let me make it very clear, poor people aren't necessarily killers. Just because you happen to be not rich doesn't mean you're willing to kill." —George W. Bush, Washington, D.C., May 19, 2003

"We've had a great weekend here in the Land of the Enchanted." —George W. Bush, Albuquerque, N.M., May 12, 2003 (New Mexico's state nickname is "Land of Enchantment")

"I think war is a dangerous place." —George W. Bush, Washington, D.C., May 7, 2003

"We ended the rule of one of history's worst tyrants, and in so doing, we not only freed the American people, we made our own people more secure." —George W. Bush, Crawford, Texas, May 3, 2003

"We've got hundreds of sites to exploit, looking for the chemical and biological weapons that we know Saddam Hussein had prior to our entrance into Iraq." —George W. Bush, Santa Clara, Calif., May 2, 2003

"Perhaps one way will be, if we use military force, in the post-Saddam Iraq the U.N. will definitely need to have a role. And that way it can begin to get its legs, legs of responsibility back." —George W. Bush, the Azores, Portugal, March 16, 2003

"Now, we talked to Joan Hanover. She and her husband, George, were visiting with us. They are near retirement — retiring — in the process of retiring, meaning they're very smart, active, capable people who are retirement age and are retiring." —George W. Bush, Alexandria, Va., Feb. 12, 2003

"[The Space Shuttle] Columbia carried in its payroll classroom experiments from some of our students in America." —George W. Bush, Bethesda, Md., Feb. 3, 2003

"And, most importantly, Alma Powell, secretary of Colin Powell, is with us." —George W. Bush, Washington, D.C., Jan. 30, 2003

"The war on terror involves Saddam Hussein because of the nature of Saddam Hussein, the history of Saddam Hussein, and his willingness to terrorize himself." —George W. Bush, Grand Rapids, Mich., Jan. 29, 2003

"One year ago today, the time for excuse-making has come to an end." —George W. Bush, Washington, D.C., Jan. 8, 2003

WOW!!!

Amazing that we have a President who is a poor public speaker!!!

Since public speaking is the absolute most important responsibility of the President, maybe the candidates should consist of the following people:

Jennifer Aniston
Will Smith
Orlando Bloom
Jay Leno
Vin Diesel
Ice Cube
Lizzy McGuire
Halle Berry

There is a list of people who would probably never mess up prepared lines. They could memorize them and rehearse and make OUTSTANDING leaders of our country.

Because, as we all know, the delivery of lines is THE MOST IMPORTANT part of being President.

Which one does observer want? Maybe he wants one of the Olson twins.

ROFLMAO

Read Ishmael, The Story of B - the books that follow as well... the thoughts presented may change your life.

rancid, "Not too long from now, they'll sue you for using words like "Pray" and the worst of all "Christian". yah right, more like they'll make an amendment letting churches be in schools and kids pray. fuck the christian onslaught of evil, be a good christian, love god, and leave politics!

BUSH IS SAURON, SAVE THE SHIRE!!!

So much energy is wasted arguing with people like rancid. Unfortunately, he is like a majority of adults who stop learning from the world around them, and, intstead, simply look for sources which conform to rather than confirm their beliefs. It's the day an adult becomes stunted with arrogance and simply stops learning. Just listen to talk radio any day of the week. People hear what they want to hear and filter out the rest. What is scariest of all, in light of how consistently wrong the Bush administration has been, almost half the country is still willing to re-elect them.

No matter what I say, or how persuasive I am, rancid will defend conservative mindrot. Which is his right , as is his right to be an annoying bonehead and consistently pick fights in a venue he no buisness participating in except to prove how truly lost he is.

Finally, here is my point. If Bush is going to be defeated it is not going to be by hashing it out with people like rancid. Nothing is ever revealed on shows like Crossfire or Hannity and Combs. It's a terrible waste of time and energy and simply adds to the noise and murk that is rhetoric. A reasoned and dignified appeal to the moderate is what is going to win this election. I suggest we all focus our enegies on open minds not closed ones.

Oh, and rancid, don't bother responding to this because I have far better things to do with my time.

ok... i think that religion has nothing to do with selecting a presedent. but if u want to put it that way... the bible sayd that thou shalt not cheat, lie, or steal... and bush cheated for prez, lied to everyoe, and stole our freedom. he should go to hell. and religion is a state of mind that should not be concidered when judging someone. my name means christ bearer too and i am far from christian... in fact, i dont like christianity at all... i think the bible is a wet book of lies... so f*** religion look at the person. someone should just shoot bush already.

How about this one:

You know your in trouble when three out of four third world leaders speak English as a second language better than your own president. ( too long but disturbingly true)

or this one:

A misunderestimated proxy always lacks moxie.

I just want to ask why rancid is even on this post.. If you're so pro bush what would ever lead you to a protest site? Also it seems to me that you're the one trying to pick a fight by even posting in the first place. Obvously we're not going to change our minds and neither are you so why don't you stop getting yourself insulted and insulting others? Thanks and have a nice day.

A slogan for Rancid:

Bandwagon American- Loving my country since 9/11/01

stand up and protest aguest the war, drop your guns and your swords and prey for world peace

My real slogan:

I hope the liberals never leave the U.S., I like them helping me pay for more bullets, bombs and missiles.

thats not even close to true, i bet that spins your cross!

Come on Matt, if you pay taxes, have a job or purchase anything, a portion of your money goes to the Departent of Defense to buy bullets, guns, missles and bombs.

You can go here:

http://www.hood.army.mil/fthood/

and look at some of the weapons you helped pay for.

I just get on warm and gushy on the inside knowing that you lefties are assisting me with the purchase of weapons.

Rancid the chickenhawk coward loves warring because he's a chickenhawk who loves to see things go Boom.

Well, Mr. Rancid, howz about we buy you a one way ticket to Faluja to work out your live long dream of killing brown people.

How about we purchase you a cab ride to Bush Int. to send your lying white coward ass to Iraq to shoot all you want.

I'm sure you'll find a cowardly poetic way to decline this offer.....just like your President and his VP and Asscroft, and Condie and all the other never served a fucking moment anywhere...

LETS SEND YOU

Your Christopher Columbus/Christ Bearer, raped, murdered and stole the land from the natives.

How Christian is that?

It's fun pissing you off.

And the fact that you know I'm right, just makes its so much worse for you.

BTW, how did it feel helping purchase a few more bullets this weekend?

We know that there is a big Thug portion of the Democrat party. We have been dealing with the brown shirts for years, but it is not really something that the general population has been made aware.

Now is the time.

We need to let the public know over and over how brutal and nasty the Democrats have been and continue to be. Signstealing, destruction of property,keying of cars displaying Bush/Cheney bumper stickers, threats of bodily harm, actual bodily harm, lost employment. We need to publicize it.

There has been a great deal of this around the country as of late -indicating how desperate the Democrats are to win this election and demonstrating just how violent they are willing to become to accomplish that

I hope that local Republicans are calling police about theft of signs, damage to signs, and other damages inflicted by the Democrats. I would contact both the weekly, daily and state papers as well as the television media.

Fox would love to do a little piece on the animosity of this election. So would some of the local media.

Let us here at HIMC keep track of criminal activity. I will develop and run the thread if people post to me about any new activity.

Poor Locksley,
His life is dwindling away with only mediocre success as a jackass gadfly. a shame......to both his parental units.

Again here Locksley, er Pamela, has missed the boat. TO assume that car keying occurs by Democrats is to show how politically myopic he truly is. Can this idiot consider for a moment....wait no...he can't.....

Independents hate Bush II. Maybe it was a Green Party member who did it. Perhaps it was a Libertarian who did....or maybe a socialist or anarchist.

i want regime change too. what do you propose? a coup? more attacks on u.s. soil? something needs to be done.

Comments like the one above are definitely the fastest way to get your servers confiscated by the FBI.

And in cases like that, they are well deserved.

you religious disgust me!
this is not a motherf----ing country for christains, its a country for everyone and i have NO obligation to up hold you christain values
Would you forgive osama?
Cause Bush has ordered the death of many more then osama will ever kill.

By your logic, if Christians are fair game, then so are niggers and faggots, right?

So much for Tolerance and Diversity.

Christians will be the death of us all. Dumb fuckers.

The queers will be, spreading their AIDS.

All Leftists are for Death. "pro choice" means the right to murder the unborn and all the living. Commie faggots all.

ok well i'm sorry to tell you that the reason that people dont like the christians is not because of the religous belifes but because of people like you that are evil and believe that anyone that does not fit into the right lifestyle is wrong. I mean i dont see many homosexuals going around saying that they want to hurt straight people. So maybe you shouldn't want to hurt them thats why they dont like people like you and i think they have good reason to attack christians or anyone for that manner that act like that no matter who they are if someones being mean to people for something that cant control.

Hemp is an herb......Bush is a dope!

Kudos to "middleman" for remaining calm and not blowing up because God (oh excuse me that's a strictly Christian word) only knows I can't keep my cool around idiots. Please e-mail me to talk if you want.

"not my dime" ... cool it with going on the racist line... don't walk it: thats their job..

You "good Christians" kind of remind me of the "good ol' boys" from my highschool, the same ones who egg my car, leave me threatening messages on a daily basis, and overall show me the best of the Christian faith in its entirety, just because I'm not like them. You want to talk about religion, talk about the Oklahoma City Bombing done by a good "Christian" or all the muslims in this country who have been beaten, stabed, robbed, murdered or raped by "Christians" because of what they believe in. Kinda reminds me of Columbine.

Feel free to send fuel to the fire... oh wait I meant "hate mail."

A queer tells us that we suck.

Such brilliance could only come from a childish Regressive.

rancid is a dumbfuck

Wow, what a brilliant statement!!

I bet you'll be shift leader one day. The power of who will be working register, drive thru or salting the fries will be in your hands.

I'll just assume that you've printed out a hard copy and have had it framed.

The whole Christian convo is so sterotypical...not all Christians act like that just like not all Muslims go around blowing people up.

Amanda
Very Proud Marine Corps Fiancee

MoveonPaC.org's got some of the best stuff out there!

As for the 'doing my best to piss off the faggots' comment... I really wish that those arse-backwards wife beating drunken hicks (Such as the poster of that comment) would stay in their homes during election day.

Ever notice how theyy never put their e-mail addresses? Too afraid to face your media? Ah! cowards, just like their president.

He's not MY president!

Here's your slogan, queerboi:

Who would Jesus give AIDS to?

What glory hole would Jesus like?

Jesus likes rest area stalls.

We should all be impressed that tough guy ass craver bragging about its email uses AOL, the choice of fucking retards.

isn't it amazing..
here i am, an incredibly liberal democrat, who is christian, pro-choice, supportive of gays- though i myself am straight, not racist, anti-bush, and anti-war.

this site was not established so that viewers could fight. while i have no problem with people affiliated with other parties, this is not a site for them!

i want bush out of office, not because he is a republican, but because he is money-hungry, ignorant, and does not represent the United States in any positive manner. he has alienated us, destroyed our economy, lost the faith of most of the American people, etc. however, those are just my beliefs. feel free to disagree, but if you're so pro-bush, keep it to yourself. i'm not littering YOUR sites with trash, so stay the hell off of mine.

oh.. and by the way, Rancid- your guns, yeah.. about those.. if you're so into them, why don't you make use of one and shove it somewhere.
have a nice evening.

Wow. I can't believe how myopic and simply idiotic people are. It almost makes me ashamed. No, wait... it does make me ashamed. Just scrolling down and looking at the stubborness of people to realize that our country was NOT founded on Christianity, and then to see people who believe that Democrats are thugs who want to key your car or destroy your Bush/Cheney sign... Because that's not as bad as finding hundreds of torn up new voter (thus most likely democratic) registration forms in trash-cans from the 2000 election, mostly done by Republicans. Seeing as to how Democrats don't want to deny anybody a vote, even if that person is going to vote for Bush.

And then we have Rancid, the NRA's wet dream. I don't there's anything left to say about him that he hasn't said himself through his idiotic and narrow-minded views. If that's an American, then I can see why we are so hated around the world. Because of dumb-fucks like that.

The best protection is abstinence…JUST SAY NOT TO BUSH

My goodness what a display of stupidity. lol

Let's start with "And then we have Rancid, the NRA's wet dream." First of all, I'm in favor of gun control. I'd like to have a law that would ban all automatic AND semi-automatic weapons. IMHO, the only guns that should be sold are bolt action rifles, pump shotguns, over-under and side-by-side shotguns. Basically, only guns that are used for legitimate hunting (BTW, I don't hunt). I'm not an NRA wet dream, I'm a NRA nightmare because I'm a conservative in favor of gun control. But an idiot like you who makes assumptions and stereotypes (I'm sure you would make an excellent klan member with your stereotyping skills), always looks like the fool.

"Seeing as to how Democrats don't want to deny anybody a vote, even if that person is going to vote for Bush." What about if Florida when the Democrats wanted to throw out all of the military abisentee ballots because they were not postmarked. The military DOESN'T postmark their mail. But since the Democrats knew most servicemen vote Republican, they decided to deny their right to vote. Nice try stupid.

And there are plenty of reports of Democrats trying to pull voting shananigans, but you choose to ignore that don't you.

You're a television executives wet dream because you believe everything you hear on tv and everything that the celebrities tell you. The perfect tv consumer.

First off, I am neither a Demorat nor a Repuglican. Second, I think think this whole rootin' shootin' cowboy "I'm going to kill the turrists better than HIM!" line we're getting from "both" parties is incredibly asinine and short-sighted. Al Qaeda is not about personalities. Like the hydra of Greek mythology, for every head you lop off, two sprout in its place. Every "terrorist" you kill is going to extinguish any hope and optimism for a better life in his/her brothers/sisters/kids/friends/neighbors and replace that hope with a nothing-to-lose, nihilistic, bitter hatred for the killer of their loved one(s).

Reminds me of a bit from an Ali G interview. I don't remember who he was talking to, but he asked the question, "What do you believe is the proper punishment for a suicide bomber?"

That said, I post this in response to Rancid's claim that "Democrats know most servicemen vote Republican..."

Democrats

Richard Gephardt: Air National Guard, 1965-71.
David Bonior: Staff Sgt., Air Force 1968-72.
Tom Daschle: 1st Lt., Air Force SAC 1969-72.
Al Gore: enlisted Aug. 1969; sent to Vietnam Jan. 1971 as an army journalist in 20th Engineer Brigade.
Bob Kerrey: Lt. j.g. Navy 1966-69; Medal of Honor, Vietnam.
Daniel Inouye: Army 1943-47; Medal of Honor, WWII.
John Kerry: Lt., Navy 1966-70; Silver Star, Bronze Star with Combat V, Purple Hearts.
Charles Rangel: Staff Sgt., Army 1948-52; Bronze Star, Korea.
Max Cleland: Captain, Army 1965-68; Silver Star & Bronze Star, Vietnam.
Ted Kennedy: Army, 1951-53.
Tom Harkin: Lt., Navy, 1962-67; Naval Reserve, 1968-74.
Jack Reed: Army Ranger, 1971-1979; Captain, Army Reserve 1979-91.
Fritz Hollings: Army officer in WWII; Bronze Star and seven campaign ribbons.
Leonard Boswell: Lt. Col., Army 1956-76; Vietnam, DFCs, Bronze Stars, and Soldier's Medal.
Pete Peterson: Air Force Captain, POW. Purple Heart, Silver Star and Legion of Merit.
Mike Thompson: Staff sergeant, 173rd Airborne, Purple Heart.
Bill McBride: Candidate for Fla. Governor. Marine in Vietnam; Bronze Star with Combat V.
Gray Davis: Army Captain in Vietnam, Bronze Star.
Pete Stark: Air Force 1955-57
Chuck Robb: Vietnam
Howell Heflin: Silver Star
George McGovern: Silver Star & DFC during WWII.
Bill Clinton: Did not serve. Student deferments. Entered draft but received #311.
Jimmy Carter: Seven years in the Navy.
Walter Mondale: Army 1951-1953
John Glenn: WWII and Korea; six DFCs and Air Medal with 18 Clusters.
Tom Lantos: Served in Hungarian underground in WWII. Saved by Raoul Wallenberg.

Republicans

Dennis Hastert: did not serve.
Tom Delay: did not serve.
Roy Blunt: did not serve.
Bill Frist: did not serve.
Mitch McConnell: did not serve.
Rick Santorum: did not serve.
Trent Lott: did not serve.
Dick Cheney: did not serve. Several deferments, the last by marriage.
John Ashcroft: did not serve. Seven deferments to teach business.
Jeb Bush: did not serve.
Karl Rove: did not serve.
Saxby Chambliss: did not serve. "Bad knee." The man who attacked Cleland's patriotism.
Paul Wolfowitz: did not serve.
Vin Weber: did not serve.
Richard Perle: did not serve.
Douglas Feith: did not serve.
Eliot Abrams: did not serve.
Richard Shelby: did not serve.
Jon Kyl: did not serve.
Tim Hutchison: did not serve.
Christopher Cox: did not serve.
Newt Gingrich: did not serve.
Don Rumsfeld: served in Navy (1954-57) as flight instructor.
George W. Bush: failed to complete his six-year National Guard; got assigned to Alabama so he could campaign for family friend running for U.S. Senate; failed to show up for required medical exam, disappeared from duty.
Ronald Reagan: due to poor eyesight, served in a non-combat role making movies.
Bob Dornan: Consciously enlisted after fighting was over in Korea.
Phil Gramm: did not serve.
John McCain: Silver Star, Bronze Star, Legion of Merit, Purple Heart and Distinguished Flying Cross. PRISONER OF WAR
Dana Rohrabacher: did not serve.
John M. McHugh: did not serve.
JC Watts: did not serve.
Jack Kemp: did not serve. "Knee problem," although continued in NFL for 8 years.
Dan Quayle: Journalism unit of the Indiana National Guard.
Rudy Giuliani: did not serve.
George Pataki: did not serve.
Spencer Abraham: did not serve.
John Engler: did not serve.
Lindsey Graham: National Guard lawyer.
Arnold Schwarzenegger: AWOL from Austrian army base.

Pundits & Preachers

Sean Hannity: did not serve.
Rush Limbaugh: did not serve (4-F with a pilonidal cyst.)
Bill O'Reilly: did not serve.
Michael Savage: did not serve.
George Will: did not serve.
Chris Matthews: did not serve.
Paul Gigot: did not serve.
Bill Bennett: did not serve.
Pat Buchanan: did not serve.
John Wayne: did not serve.
Bill Kristol: did not serve.
Kenneth Starr: did not serve.
Antonin Scalia: did not serve.
Clarence Thomas: did not serve.
Ralph Reed: did not serve.
Michael Medved: did not serve.
Charlie Daniels: did not serve.
Ted Nugent : did not serve. (He only shoots at things that don't shoot back.)

Do You See A Pattern Here?

I'm sorry to burst your bubble, but it is just a cold hard fact that the military leans Republican.

http://www.washingtontimes.com/functions/print.php?StoryID=20040709-121020-3190r

"If you are military now, you are more likely to be Republican and conservative than your civilian counterpart," said Peter D. Feaver, director of the Triangle Institute for Security Studies at Duke University.

http://msnbc.msn.com/id/5964655

A poll conducted late last year by the Military Times found that 57 percent of those surveyed consider themselves Republican, while 13 percent identified with the Democrats. Among the officer corps the numbers were different. Nearly 66 percent of officers considered themselves Republican compared with 9 percent Democratic. Nearly 30 percent of those surveyed by the Military Times declined to answer the questions or said they were independent.

Ok, I'll concede the point, though statistics are hardly cold hard facts.

Too bad these folks turn away from the cold hard corpses of their fallen comrades and make every effort to deny the existence of any US casualties (let alone "enemy" civilians who've been liberated from the toils of life and taxes) and blindly follow the Monkey and his Pa like lemmings to the sea...tell you what!

97% of statistics are made up on the spot.

My new favorite slogan, "Fuck You and Fuck Bush"

Christians or pedophiles, I'm not sure who's worse.

"Christians or pedophiles, I'm not sure who's worse."

Wow, I've read a lot of stupid things in my life, but this has got to be toward the top of the list.

This is why Kerry lost the election. When you have total idiots who believe things like this supporting you, how can you possibly win?

If the Democrats don't expel people like this, they'll never win another election.

You do know that Kerry is a Christian right?

dont forget this: "the united states of america, which is in NO WAY a christian nation...."

churches should stay out of politics....or be taxed.

oh, and it's "separation", dear.

Play music, not God.

About 86% of Americans consider themselves Christians, so like it or not, America is a nation with major ties to Christianity.

Oh, and it's "don't", dear.

You have to admint, the current trend of merging church and state by the Bush administration is reaching alarming levels. 10 commandments in Federal Buildings? Bush only seeks consul of God on matters like invading Iraq? public money going into faith based programs?

Why did we spend over 55 million dollars of the tax payers money to harass President Clinton yet there has been NO independent counsel investigations into why and how Bush has lied to us and gotten us into a morally reprehensible war that has destroyed any moral high ground we had around the world?

Why did Republicans spend over 55 million dollars of the tax payers money to establish that President Clinton lied about some of the items stated here, yet there has been NO independent counsel investigations into why and how Bush has lied to us and gotten us into a morally reprehensible war that has destroyed any moral high ground we had around the world?

"You have to admint, the current trend of merging church and state by the Bush administration is reaching alarming levels. 10 commandments in Federal Buildings? Bush only seeks consul of God on matters like invading Iraq? public money going into faith based programs?"

First, how does having the 10 Commandments in a federal building merge church and state? Bits and pieces of Christianity have been incorporated in government documents and buildings since the founding of this country.

Second, the vast majority of Christian based monuments have been in place for decades.

Bush gets the majority of his counsel from his advisors, although your statement plays well for the hard core atheisists.

"Why did we spend over 55 million dollars of the tax payers money to harass President Clinton yet there has been NO independent counsel investigations into why and how Bush has lied to us and gotten us into a morally reprehensible war that has destroyed any moral high ground we had around the world?"

Newsflash - President Clinton broke the law and committed perjury. President Bush was given information that said there were WMD's and there were not WMDs. The UN said Saddam never accounted for all of the WMDs. The UN said Saddam made it appear as though he probably still had WMDs. President Bush was wrong, but if he had to be wrong one way or the other, most Americans prefer that he errored this way.

And going back to Christian based America, I'll just copy and paste a post from above:

---------------------------

Christopher Columbus (who's name means "Christ Bearer) named his first landfall, San Salvador (Holy Savior). In 1504 he wrote a book. In the book he wrote,

"I prayed to the most merciful Lord about my heart's great desire ... It was the Lord who put into my mind ... the fact that it would be possible to sail from here to the Indies. There is no question that the inspiration was from the Holy Spirit...."

From the beginning, Christians in Europe viewed the New World as a place for religious freedom and a haven and an opportunity to spread the Gospel. Their earliest legal documents reflect their commitment to Christ and their mission. In 1620, the Pilgrims established the Mayflower Compact before they landed at Plymouth Rock. The document said, "In the presence of God, Amen. We...do by these presents solemnly and mutually in the presence of God, and one another, covenant and combine ourselves into a civil body politic."

In the Fundamental Orders of Connecticut, often called the first American Constitution, written in 1638, the drafters said, "[We] enter into a combination and confederation together to maintain and preserve the liberty and purity of the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ, which we now profess." This document recognized for the first time that mankind's rights come from God.

The Declaration of Independence acknowledges that mankind is created and that the Creator God bestows the rights. That means, that no man can take them away, and that government, instituted by God, is to protect those rights. By implication, government cannot deprive a person of those rights absent due process of law. Thus, God gave mankind free will, and a function of government is to protect the electorates exercise of free will. That is a Christian concept.

By the way, did you know that the Continental Congress called for a day of fasting and prayer within the colonies, beseeching God to give guidance and direction as to whether they should secede from England before the representatives to the Continental Congress signed the Declaration of Independence? In 1777, while the colonies were struggling in the Revolutionary War, the First Continental Congress called the Bible "the great political textbook of the patriots" and appropriated funds to import 20,000 Bibles for the people. Are you aware that the Continental Congress began its sessions with prayer, a practice that is followed by both houses of congress even today?

Samuel Adams, cousin of John Adams, is called the "Father of the American Revolution." He incited the Boston Tea Party, signed the Declaration of Independence and called for the first Continental Congress. He said as the Declaration of Independence was being signed, "We have this day restored the Sovereign to whom all men ought to be obedient. He reigns in heaven and from the rising to the setting of the sun, let His kingdom come." Samuel Adams also said, "First of all, I ... rely upon the merits of Jesus Christ for a pardon of all my sins."

Benjamin Franklin, considered a deist by many, said, "He who shall introduce into the public affairs the principles of a primitive Christianity, will change the face of the world." And Thomas Jefferson, also considered a deist, said, "The reason that Christianity is the best friend of government is because Christianity is the only religion that changes the heart." Jefferson is even quoted as having said, "I am a Christian, that is to say, a disciple of the doctrines of Jesus Christ."

John Jay was the first Chief Justice of he Supreme Court. He said, "Providence has given to our people the choice of their rulers. And it is the duty as well as the privilege and interest of a Christian nation to select and prefer Christians for their rulers."

Political Science professors at the University of Houston, curious about who influenced the founders, gathered 15,000 quotes made by them. The effort took over ten years. They reduced the number to those that had a significant impact on the founding fathers and the result was 3,154 quotes. They determined that the Bible was quoted far more than any other source. Thirty-four percent of all quotes were from the Bible, and another 60% of the quotes were from men who were using the Bible to make their point. God's word was important to the nation's founders.

This post could go on and on.

I just wanted to say that everyone has the freedom to say what they would like, obviously. But I think people's religious beliefs should in no shape or form be incorporated into laws that will be affecting every American.
I liked the Presidential canidate Kerry over President Bush because unlike the close minded ignorant idiot Bush, Kerry believed every woman has the right to choose, and for some people like myself, this is very important. I dont want religion playing a part in my reproductive freedom. If Bush gets his way, the right to choose will be past tense.

Cara the problem with you is your fundamental ignorance of how laws developed over the centuries. If rellgious beliefs played no part in our legal system we would have no laws against murder or theft of perjury, just to name a few- all of which are abstracted from the 10 Commandments. As for your right to turn your vagina into a Nazi slaughterhouse by obtaining a partial birth abortion if you 'choose' to do so, if Roe vs Wade should be overturned by the SCOTUS, laws concerning abortion will merely be returned to the individual states as before where they should be0 all of which allow a woman to obtain an abortion0 up through the second trimester at any rate So quit carrying your brains around in your panties and so some research on the law so you dont sound so pitiably ignorant when you post here

laws against killing didn't come from the 10 commandments. laws didnt come from the 10 commandments. laws exist with or without god and have existed with and without god in human history.

next?

My ingorance is harmless, but yours is dangerous and infectious. I am not anti-religion by any means. It has given many people hope. I however choose to not base my life around religion. Oh and I know about the law. I am not stupid. I agree that Partial Birth Abortion is a good law to have because of the fact that it is dangerous to the mother's health, and I never said anything about "turning my vagina into a Nazi Slaughter house" as you put it. Its all about the right to choose, whatever it may be....that tis what this country is about right? oh hey......freedom of speech ring a bell?

"close minded ignorant idiot Bush" which shows how open-minded you are.

"because of the fact that it is dangerous to the mother's health" so forget the baby that is about to be born? And tell me what danger to her health? If there is a chance it will be a painful delivery, does that threaten her health? If she feels she can't handle a baby, does that threaten her mental health? Where do you draw the line? They've tried to put wording in there that allowed partial birth abortion if there is an iminent threat to the woman's life, but NOW and the other radical feminists didn't want "danger to health" narrowly defined like that. They want it to be so broad that any doctor can just say that a partial birth abortion was a risk, even though there was no risk of serious injury to the mother, so that an abortion can take place at the last minute. Have you ever seen a premmie at the hospital? If so, that is what you are killing with this procedure. I personally believe it should be up to the states to decide, but I'd say that if there is a real and legitimate threat to the mother's life, it should be an option. Do you think NOW would agree with that? Well, they haven't.

------------------

"laws against killing didn't come from the 10 commandments. laws didnt come from the 10 commandments. laws exist with or without god and have existed with and without god in human history. "

Silly boy. Laws are founded on religious principles. If we are just animals without soul or laws handed down by a greater power, then why do we even have them. Should we start keeping an eye on lions, and if a lion attacks or kills another lion, should we imprison it? Or are we going to remove our laws when a human kills another human? I mean if we're just plain old animals, what gives us the right to say what other animals do, human or lion?

I never said you were stupid, Cara - merely that you are ignorant about the role that religion has played in the development of our body of law You obviously do NOT 'know about the law' or you would have never made such an appallingly uninformed statement about its religious origins No one is questioning your right to 'freedom of speech' - it is axiomatic and any politically astute person knows that the 'right to choose' is simply a cutesly little euphemism for 'the right to kill your baby"- you are simply to squeemish or gutless to say so And since you fail to point out any example of my alleged 'ignorance', one can only deduce that this is just your way of saying 'nyah nyah, so are you'

Rancid, your points are valid and well spoken. As for my "open mind", which is in fact open to many things, but I am not perfect, no one is. If laws are based on the 10 commandments, I would love to know how they justify the death penalty.

The right to choose, may mean to some people the right to kill your baby, but one thing people cannot seem to agree on is when is it actually a living fetus......
I know the role religion plays in many laws, but the thing I do not agree with is the fact that religion does play a part in politics. What if you dont believe in religion? And how did my belief in...as you said, the right to kill your baby, turn into my vagina being a Nazi Slaughter house? Personal attacks on someone are not appreciated. Just because I think women should have the right to have an abortion does not mean I running around doing so. I do not run around with my brain in my panties. If I did, I would probably be thinking about something else ......don't you?

How typical Cara you support abortion and oppose the death penalty That is the singular difference between us I want to punish the guilty and protect the innocent You want to protect the guilty and slaughter the innocent

The death penalty should not be practiced and our country is in dire need for prison reforms...but that's another story..please view http://www.freefreenow.org and click on links to find out more about that.
Secondly, I don't believe that anyone is truly Pro-choice or Pro-Life. Noone enjoys having an abortion, but if I when I had an unexpected pregnancy last year, (and although I ended up miscarrying),it was a great comfort to me knowing that the option to abort was open. Abortion should be kept legal, confidential and free.

Smart Bombs Don't Make Up For Dumb Leaders

I never said I was opposed to the death penalty. I just want to know how religion plays a part in the death penalty since so many people seem to think that religion is the building block for our laws. Relating the death penalty to abortion is completly absurd. The death penalty involves killing someone who can breathe on their own. Most abortions are done before the gender of the fetus can even be determind. How can that be killing when one does not even know the gender let alone the fact this fetus cannot sustain itself without the mother's biological resources.
I do not agree with your point of view, but I am not saying its wrong. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion

Cara, "If laws are based on the 10 commandments, I would love to know how they justify the death penalty."

Honestly, I have conflicting opinions about the death penalty. I'll tell myself that we shouldn't have the death penalty but should imprison those convicted and let God judge. But then I hear about men beating another and then chaining him to the back of a truck and dragging him to death, and I visualize the horror and extreme suffering the victim endured the last hour of his life and feel that such cold, hateful people who don't seem to even have feelings have forfeited their lives when they decide to give up their humanity. When you hear of a women raped, tortured and burned to death over several days, I can't imagine that someone who could do such a thing is truely human. That is where I have my conflict.

I can't help but support the death penalty for those who acts were clearly not human, but I oppose it in most cases. I also want severe prison reforms.

If you go to prison, you should be doing hard labor. No television, no basketball, no weightlifting, no rock, country or rap music. You should be making little rocks out of big rocks during the day, and either sitting in your cell or taking classes at night.

---------------------------

"Noone enjoys having an abortion, but if I when I had an unexpected pregnancy last year, (and although I ended up miscarrying),it was a great comfort to me knowing that the option to abort was open. Abortion should be kept legal, confidential and free."

Not all people enjoy having a child once they are actually parents. Do you believe they should be allowed to kill their children?

The proof that babies in the third trimester ARE babies is that you see it all the time with preemies. Going to the doctor in your 8th month because you suddenly became seflish is not a choice, it's murder. If you get pregnant and want to make your choice, do it before that fetus becomes a baby not a few days or weeks before he or she gets a name and it's technically murder. The irony is that the supports of partial birth abortion would have a fit if they heard of someone who got a puppy and decided it was too much of a responsibility and a hassle so just killed it.

Thousands of Americans are going to China, Russia and everywhere else to adopt babies, and yet a woman who decides a month before delivery that she doesn't want to be a mother can't just wait one more month and let that baby have life and a couple who can't have a baby the gift of a child?

I too have conflicting thoughts on the death penalty. People who commit such heinous crimes should be punished, and in some cases, I could see it as being put to death. But then again, sometimes I think people who have caused harm to others should have to think about it for the rest of their lives, but I do not know how hard they would actually think about it.

As far as abortions go, it a very complex issue. The two sides will never come to a mutal agreement on anything. think that abortions should be legal, and then once the third trimester has come, the mother should only be able to obtain an abortion if there are extenuating circumstances, but what these are exactly, I dont see people agreeing on them. Some what the unborn child to have a chance at life, where other people want to leave the choice to the mother. I think people should be able to choose what is best for themselves and the baby.

any other thoughts on this subject?

oh and Lord Locksley,
You come to some pretty strange conclusions......hmmmm slaughter the innocent and a vagina being a nazi slaughter house, how brillant of you....think of something better next time that is not so barbaric

I thought this was a great little chant, and I am sure that some of you will enjoy it
A chant from the presidential inauguration:
Racist, sexist, anti-gay, Bush and Cheney GO AWAY!!!!!!

I see how you could argue that the "defense of marriage" act is anti-gay, but where do you get that Bush and Cheney are racist and sexist?

"Christianity neither is, nor ever was a part of the common law."

The founding fathers were Christians, but they tolerated freedom or religion and did not believe in a country based on fundamentalist views (cough cough BUSH).

Bush and Cheney are racist because of the US Patriot Act. That is racial profiling at it finest. They are sexist because of pro-life. That is taking away a woman's right.

Niggers and Faggots? I cringe writing those words, there is not way i could possibly want to even consider your thoughts with derogatory language like that!

all of these buzz-words and stereotypes just show how shallow most of this back and forth conversation is. the following facts should be considered gimmees:

no election can ever be 100% accurate, fair, or legal regardless of how many ways people try to encourage it. people are biologically centered on their own personal needs.
until we elect someone who has been a broke, female, minority, home owner etc etc etc, the same aristocrats will be watching over their own backs.

America was "discovered" by columbus when he fucked up. He thanked God becuase in the 1400s, the kings and queens were equal WITH GOd- anything he did for the monarchy, he did for God, including but not limited to the rape pillage murder and enslavement of the Americas indigenous peoples.

The United States was founded on an incredibly radical theory that people know what is best for themselves. They can figure out who will best represent them (given the skewed facts). The United States were founded on Christian ideals, but not becuase they were Christian ideals. If you look at the motivation behind the Constitution, Bill of Rights and Declaration of Independence, you will find that the morals and standards presented are comparable to those of every major religion and every good persons common sense of goodwill. All of our founders were considered good men for their time period. By today's standards, they may not be (they were all slave owners...)

War is wrong. the end.

My little brother served 8 months in the USMC in Afghanistan and re-enlisted in order to serve in Iraq during elections. He didn't rape, torture or kill anyone. He did not vote for Bush and discouraged his fellow Marines from voting for him. Bush is not good for the poor, or the children or the women or the veterans or the soldiers, but he is our President none the less. Until he finishes his stint in DC, all we can do is elect local officials who will do their best to repesent us.

Just thought I would chime in :)

Three suggested anti-Bush slogans (they are original with me, as far as I know, but feel free to use--please!):

1. Support our troops --
Dump Dubya & Cheney

2. Impeach Chush

3. The White House proudly contains the 8th wonder of the world -- the one and only brainless mammal!

At least post slogans that don't suck that bad.

In reply to your ridiculous assertion that George W Bush is a poor public speaker: The problem here is not that he can't "remember memorized lines" as you have stated, the problem is that the sheer number of misinformed things he has said imply a lack of intelligence required to be the leader of the free world. The man is not smart. He is intellectually lazy. Imagine the number of intelligence reports someone would have to read on a daily basis to keep our country safe. Now imagine that that person refuses to read said reports; rather he demands that someone do it for him and summarize the whole thing. This is not leadership. George W Bush may or may not be a crappy public speaker... but he is absolutely a lazy moron.

Everybody that supports Bush seems to Deny any shortcomings in Bush, and nitpick every single little thing they can about kerry, calling him a Candle Face, and other unwarranted arguments.
Everybody that supports Kerry seems to at least criticize Bush on valid points.

Nobody ever said Kerry was perfect. And Bush certainly isnt either. And now i'll leave both sides with one final comment, this one especially for rancid:

"Arguing over the internet is like running in the special olympics; even if you win, you're still retarded"
Think about it for a while.

America wasn't founded as a christain nation, i'm pretty sure the majority of founders were diest and athiest... sure most people are christains in this nation, that doesn't mean they're right, just cause you live in the middle east doesn't make allah the right god, just because you live in india doesn't mean that cows are really holy. jezz, f--- hurting people because you think you have the better invisible friend. war is bad, that is simple, no sane man wants war. i got my window smashed in for having a black ribbon sticker on my car that says "stop killing people"... like i'm the animal...

You, sir, are an idiot.

America back to the Europeans

The government today announced that it is changing its emblem from an
Eagle to a CONDOM because it more accurately reflects the government's
political stance. A condom allows for inflation, halts production,
destroys the next generation, protects a bunch of pricks, and gives you
a sense of security while you're actually being screwed.

I thought this was pretty funny....take it as you will

FUCK BUSH. FUCK RELIGIOUS PERSICUTION.

Wow bobo, that is one hell of an arguement you put forth. It's hard to disagree with such insight and factual accounting.

Bobo must have taken debating lessons from the same people who taught the KKK.

What if your name was "Erica" and you introduced yourself to America?

"America, I am Erica."

This is the kind of thing you'll notice if you ever search for "eric" in a document with many "Americas."

"Hi, America, I am Erica."

words are my toys

Is there a word that describes a combination of words that can be combined into a single word by removing the spaces?

I just hope that the Democrats can summon the courage to go for the jugular in the next Congressional election and beyond. With all of the failures and corruption in the Republican party that are being exposed right now, I think that people are starting to pay attention. Bush is seeing his approval ratings at an all time low, U.S. consumers are showing less and less confidence in their spending, and even the anti war and pro war rally attendance numbers show us something, in my opinion (well over 100,000 attendees vs. less that 1,000 attendees). People are realizing that you do get what you ask for in life sometimes. You want a leader who is not qualified and equipped with a seemingly endless list of his father's cronies? You got it!

As for slogans, I have one:

"Staying the course" is not a strategy, it is a death wish.

Thanks for the "unprecedented detail" yesterday George. Next time, inform me ahead of time that you are referring to "unprecedented rhetoric and propaganda" so I can go do something productive instead of wasting my time listening to you babble on.

The fact of the matter is that Bush has done nothing but fuck evreyone over backwards. The war, not only a war crime but also a complete violation of the trust of the "majority" of the US electorate. His complete failure to respond to Katrina... why? maybe its because he didnt feel like converting any resources (including military) to help save American Lives, maybe its also because the vast majority of those stranded were of ethnic minorities. Banning gay marriage - equality? democracy? 9/11 - has it not dawned on you that infact if Bush had done something to help rid the world of capitalism & globalisation then this may not have happened? Attacking afghanistan - possibly the most stupid way of gaining revenge for 9/11, merely exacerbated the problem. Have you not realised that infact bush is milking every US taxpayer for everything their worth to fortify the wealth of him and all his republican executive cronies. Election predeeding Bush's first term in office - a recount in florida, following a victory for the Democrats? Jeb Bush - Bush's brother state governer of florida? The numbers just dont add up... in more than one way.

And if your still sitting there feeling content living in your screwed over "democracy", bear these in mind:

Weapons of Mass Destruction?
45 Seconds?
*OIL*

And on the christian side of the debate; what America is being subjected to is not christianity, its a warped republican and fascistic form of christianty which serves only to widen the gap between the right wing elite and those living around and below the poverty line, all over america.

And just incase their are any brits reading this - Britain wont join the euro for economic reasons?

If britain joins the euro, it will become international currency meaning that all major business deals will be conducted in euros. This will dramatically benefit all the countries that use the euro. More importantly however, it will mean that the US $ will no longer be international currency, so unfortunately for you, America & Bush will have to face up to their enormous debt problems and start playing everything straight.

Bring on the Euro! I dont think youll be sitting so easily then...

"Rancid is the NRA's wet dream" - Perfect sum up.

Unfortunately Rob...aka'Gary Glitter's Wet Dream'...has been reading too many Labour 'information pamphlets....that little Eurocoin is a financial joke as a currency....doesnt have the volume to replace the US dollar...much less nullify its value as a world currency...as for GW 'stealing' the 2000 election....you hang on to that myth,.Rob.....it should provide you a lot of comfort in your declining years.....the same way the Jacobites got the runner-up trophy during the 'Glorious Revolution' of the late 1680's

Here is proof of Rob's ignorance:

I believe that only the police should be allowed to have handguns. I also believe that the only weapons ordinary citizens should be allowed to purchase are bolt action rifles and pump shotguns.

Practically every member of the NRA would say that I don't know what I'm talking about or that I don't believe in the constitution or that I'm just an idiot.

I am by no means the NRA's "wet dream."

However, Rob makes assumptions not based on facts but that handily fit his arguement (or lack thereof) and/or his agenda. I'm sure that Rob thinks I voted for prop 2 when I actually voted against it.

Rob, do you even know what ignorant means?

Rancid, I couldn't agree more on your take about guns. I really don't see what the fascniation is here in America with guns anyway. I know so many people who basically take the position of "guns are cool, huh huh, I gotta have them, huh huh." Very, very mature.

Back to your point though, people owning rifles and shotguns serves what should be the legitimate goals of gun owners - hunting and home protection. There is no gun more effective in home protection than a shotgun. Provided that the gun has the proper ammunition, you point and fire. End of story. And you certainly wouldnt use a gun other than a rifle or a shotgun when hunting.

There are many issues with handguns. First, they are not very reliable to the typical, casual gun owner for home protection. You have to be much more precise in firing a handgun, and this takes experience. I have both seen and experienced myself just how inaccurate people with little to moderate experience can be when firing a handgun. Outside of point blank range, you'd better be pretty experienced or you are probably going to miss.

Second, they are by design very concealable. I somehow don't think that robberies would be quite as common if the perpetrator had to always conceal a rifle or, at best, a sawed off shotgun when robbing the local corner store.

Third, as studies show, handguns bought by law abiding citizens is not the real problem - these guns often fall into the hands of criminals. One of the first things that burglars are looking for when they break into a car or a home is a gun, preferably a handgun. They are of significant monetary value to the criminal, and they further allow them to commit violent crimes.

I agree that only officers of the law should be allowed to carry handguns. I also dont think that the founding fathers envisioned that the right to bear arms in the modern world would mean that a citizen should have access to every piece of equipment that the armed forces and police force has.

Anyhow, I know that isn't exactly a Bush comment, but in my opinion, it is worth noting. Here is a Bush comment though - doesn't it seem funny that the Bush supporters claiming that a "culture of life" and "morals and values" are soooooo important are also the ones who think they should be able to carry around a hand cannon?

If I had taken the time to provide more details concerning guns, I would have written practically the exact same points.

Good job.